Dollhouse’s Renewal + My ‘6 Episodes In’ Perspective

by admin on May 18, 2009 · 22 comments

I know, I can't believe it either!

I didn’t expect to be back here talking about Dollhouse, but the impossible has happened. In fact, I thought there was more chance of me blogging about American Idol than Dollhouse getting renewed! But guess what, Dollhouse got renewed.ย  I can only think of two possible reasons for this – either Whedon somehow managed to imprint the Fox execs with ‘Yes Man‘ persona’s, or the show actually improved after episode 6. Whilst the later is most likely, there are several things that just don’t make sense to this mid-season drop-out.

Despite the apparent euphoria, one thing that has struck me about the renew is the rather knee-jerk reaction of some fans. No doubt the same people who compared the Fox Network to the devil, are now proclaiming them as being the best thing since sliced bread. Maybe its short term memory or the result of imprints, but Fox is suddenly back in many people’sย  good books. Sure, Fox renewed the show, but they didn’t do so out of the goodness of their hearts, or because cancellation would have left some fans feeling suicidal. As Maureen Ryan from the Chicago Tribune says:

Fox doesn’t care about how viewers feel (you saw “Moment of Truth,” right?). No, Fox renewed “Dollhouse” because it thinks it can make money off the project — enough to keep the enterprise profitable.

She’s entirely right. It’s all about the Benjamins, baby. Fox obviously feel that their division can make a tidy profit through DVD sales and various media avenues (iTunes, Hulu, etc). Good for them, they’ve allowed fans to drive themselves crazy over a show which most were always going to love, regardless of the actual quality – seriously, some people went wild for the ‘backup singer episode’ – and they’ve filled their pockets.

Personally I would save my thanks – be happy certainly, but fans should be wary that they’ll be going through exactly the same thing next season.

One of the main contributing reasons for the renewal is Whedon convincing the network that he’d produce the show on a shoe-string budget next term, as Ausiello points out here. Without this compromise, Dollhouse season 2 would never have been a consideration for Fox. They simply would not have been able to reconcile the truly awful viewing figures with a show that cost a fair bit to produce. It’s all about viability.

Now if I was a fan of Dollhouse the ‘television series’, I’d be quite concerned by this detail. For me, Dollhouse was already cutting back on some much-needed sparkle and scope. It’s a sci-fi show that (according to popular opinion) rarely breached the confines of the Dollhouse, and when it did the locations were often dull and uninspiring. Now they have an even smaller budget? How are they going to convincingly portray the imprints, for example? The sets are fine, they can just re-use those, but cuts will have to be made – perhaps the ‘ensemble’ (and I say that with a touch of irony) will have to be cut in half? Maybe there will be less special effects, or, heaven forbid, no more water rafting? ๐Ÿ˜‰

Don’t get me wrong – I believe that the core of any show is the premise of the story and how it is portrayed. But Dollhouse is a show that deals with cutting edge scientific technology and concepts – wiping the human mind, uploading it with other personalities and making them interchangeable – these are concepts that NEED a decent budget in order to make them work effectively. I mean, as much as JJ. Abrams’ take on Star Trek rocked (and it rocks hard), if you take away the special effects it would have less resonance, because it’s a movie dealing with elements ahead of our time. Likewise, Dollhouse will no doubt have less relevance if the powers that be are unable to effectively make people believe in the world of the show. It can be done, of course, but it’s going to be a challenge.

Anyway, it’s been speculated that the unaired 13th episode of Dollhouse will be a model going forward:

Another factor was the show’s unaired 13th episode, which Whedon shot on a shoestring budget for the “Dollhouse” first season DVD set. Whedon presented it to the network as an example of how “Dollhouse” can achieve a high-quality production with a lesser budget.

I guess we need to see that episode before we can make our minds up.

Ken Tucker of EW sees Dollhouse’s renewal as a victory for fans:

a great display of power: passionate fans finally making networks understand that, at a scary economic time to be a network, they’d better start listening to the fans

I’m all for people power, but there’s also a danger here (bear in mind I’ve only fully seen the first 6 or so episodes in their entirety) – fans are not always right. I mean, the first 6 episodes of Dollhouse were poor, in my opinion. I’m being honest here, I know some people are too delicate to have anything negative said about the ‘best show eva’, but that’s my honest opinion. So from my perspective it’s quite worrying that Fox have nothing better up their sleeve to replace the show with. I was glad when Fringe got renewed, but it deserved it on merit – the no.1 new in the key 18-49, with a large fan base to support it. The figures don’t lie. So I look at Dollhouse’s plummeting viewing figures and even they suggest that the supposed people who watch this show don’t actually watch it live. Have Fox been duped by the power of social media? Have we all decided to settle for the mediocre? Or should did the show deserve another chance? It’s something I’m interested in finding out once I get the time to watch those ‘missing’ episodes. That’s the point of this post really, it’s road-mapping my perspective 6 episodes in.

Another thing that has to be factored in is the time-slot the show will be getting next season. *I’m hearing that it will remain in a Friday position, which seems ridiculous decision if Fox really want to give the show the best possible chance to succeed. Although it could be argued that the Friday time-slot actually saved DH from an even worse ratings massacre and certain cancellation. That said we’ll have to wait for official confirmation on this anyway.

Anyway, some of you WD readers have emailed me over the weeks to see whether I’d be blogging about the show again – well let’s just say that I never ever expected to being making another post about DH, although I didn’t rule it out. Had it been renewed prior to episode 6, my decision to stop would have been the same. The only thing that has changed [since then] is that the best two shows on TV are now on hiatus – Lost and Fringe..and Dollhouse is also on a break. Which means that should the fancy take me, I’ll have a tiny-teeny bit moreย  time to post my thoughts on the show. Of course, Watching Dollhouse has never been your typical “Dollhouse” fan site, and it never will be. No disrespect to anyone, but I’m not into the whole ‘Whedon worship’ thing, it strikes me as kind of ridiculous. I will always be an admirer of some of his ideas, but it’s not in me to say I love something for the sake of fitting into this community. I’m reminded that some people think this isn’t right – that I have a Dollhouse site so I should only say great things about the show. What those people fail to recognise is that I started this site because I loved the premise and its themes. ๐Ÿ˜€ SO, with that said I might go back and post my thoughts of the episodes that I haven’t seen – although I doubt I’ll do any in-depth posts. Like always, I’ll go with the flow and do my thing if and when the feeling takes me.

“Did I Fall Awake?” ๐Ÿ™‚

*UPDATE:It has been confirmed that Dollhouse will remain in a Friday spot for next season. You can view the Fox fall and mid-season schedule here.

joe May 18, 2009 at 9:24 am

When does season 2 start?

Roco May 18, 2009 at 7:23 pm
Adam May 18, 2009 at 10:12 am

Whatever you do, just avoid the episode “Echoes”. Its just god awful. The rest of the episodes you can catch on Fox.com, though.

Roco May 18, 2009 at 6:11 pm

Ah, I’m out of the loop when it comes to the DH episode titles. ๐Ÿ˜€

K May 18, 2009 at 4:49 pm

It is so natural and respectful that you have your own opinion and obviously don’t have to like the show just because. But in fact, yes, It is a little weird tu run a FANsite while you are quite discontented with the show. Well, it’s not for being typical, but usually fansites are running by fans, they not have to obligatory worship and not critize the fandom, but at least like it and enjoy it.
I’m just saying that it’s a weird idea whatever you say about it, lol, nothing more. Also, besides the info you give, I have the impresion that your are more or less saying that you are the one free to speak while a legion of blinded fans follow the show just because Whedon did it, like we, the ones who liked it, didn’t like it really for itself.
Maybe it’s not your intention, but sounds kinda like that and it’s a little offensive.
And well certainly i’m not a blinded fan iluminated by the grace of magnificent and saviour FOX thinking that theyre hearts were warmed by the heat of our fan love. I am aware that they expect to do money, and some weeks ago I was talking to my friends about dollhouse, ratings… I the conclusion of how a good bussines could be the show, even with low ratings were there, maybe a reality show can do high numbers in audience, but rarely do money years after in multimedia products and merchandising just as Firefly done and is doing.

Roco May 18, 2009 at 6:29 pm

..and you are quite welcome to your opinion too. Interpretation is open, I guess.

I have to correct you on a few things though:

As I’ve said, I’m interested by the themes/premise of the show. This was one of the first Dollhouse sites that were not business or media-based, so I guess you could call it a fansite. At the time I certainly did. However, since the show aired I found myself not liking the episodes and some of the elements surrounding the show. I guess I should remove all references to “fansite” so as to make it easier for people, but yeah, I guess I don’t see it as an important thing for me to do.

What I’m saying is, it may be weird to you, but we all find value in different things. I may not be a Whedonite or a fan of the show so far, but I think the themes deserve a platform – hence why I ultimately didn’t want the show to be cancelled.

So..weird? Maybe..but do I care? Not in the slightest. That’s how I roll! ๐Ÿ™‚

This is not a slight against your interpretation of the situation, it’s just that I know the reason why I started the site and I’m comfortable with that. What’s more, no-one needs read the blog if they don’t want to.

Re: your second point. My opinion is that Whedon has a lot of people who will love his work no matter what – I’m also going off a poll I had on this blog several months ago, so I’m not just making this up! Of course not every Whedon fan is like that, but I don’t believe I ever said they were – you interpreted that way. I also stand by my opinion that the Whedon worship is ridiculous, especially since much of it is actually quite serious. But that ties back to my own views.

My main point was that WD is not your usual Dollhouse outlet (as you’ve pointed out) – one of the reasons why it’s different is because of the fact that I don’t necessarily champion the show (I say what I think), but I also respect the views of those who do, whilst accepting the fact that many of those who adore the show genuinely adore the show and say what they think ๐Ÿ™‚

It’s also worth bearing in mind that I have experienced one or two quite disgraceful things from so-called Whedon fans..some of whom are precious souls and run “fan” sites. So consider that not everyone is as open-minded and decent as yourself.

Anyway, I appreciate your comments and opinions – everyone has something worth saying!

Phoenix May 18, 2009 at 10:48 pm

Wow, Roco, I never expected to hear from you on DH again — I was just flitting through after reading some of the renewal hooplah and wondering if you’d come back. It’s always nice to hear someone who isn’t speaking from a “fan power” perspective!

Of course it’s all about money; it’s always been that way with FOX and it always will be. Aside from “The Target” and “Man on the Street,” (at least for me), I agree with you — the first episodes were just bad (although I’m still a teensy bit partial to “True Believer”). Since then, it’s picked up quite a bit and I hope that you get the chance to view the episodes you missed (although I can definitively say that you likely won’t enjoy “Echoes” all that much — it wasn’t really all that it could have been).

I’m not too concerned with the budget slash; “Buffy” and “Angel” both dealt with them with grace and while “Dollhouse” is still not on the level with either of them I think that it can take it and move on — keep in mind that the only real futuristic SF thing that we’ve seen thus far is Topher’s chair, which is essentially a fancy version of a barber’s chair that has blue lights flicker on around it.

While I won’t be hinging on hope, I’ll wait and see if you like any of these episodes to blog about them — your deconstructions are always worthwhile and I’d especially love to hear your thoughts on “Briar Rose,” which was really one of the best of the season (sadly, the season finale “Omega” started off with rich promise but became a bit of a mess by the end).

One thought that I can posit as to why “Dollhouse” was saved is that, as some websites have pointed out, in this day and age Nielson ratings have become less and less valuable to television executives, seeing as how, since the advent of TiVo or DVR and the like, ratings have been dropping left and right because people don’t have to be hemmed in to one schedule. Also, you can just fastforward past the commercials, which is a large plus. Notice how DH got a more than 40% bump once you factored in DVR viewership and internet streaming? All I can say is that I hope next season they drop the “Echo is an enormous slut, watch her skimpy outfits!” line of advertising.

OH! And in case you didn’t catch it — I’m not sure if it’s confirmed yet or not — Dollverse has said that the 13th episode, “Epitaph One” will actually premiere in Sweden or something like that in July. Do you know if this is true or not?

In any case, glad to hear from you again, and I hope that if you do find the time to watch the other episodes, you’ll enjoy them as much as I did…they were almost enough to make me forget the first half of the season. Almost. ๐Ÿ˜‰

Roco May 19, 2009 at 5:58 am

Hi Phoenix, I didn’t expect to be back either!

You make a good point about the budget possibly not being too much of a concern. I guess the main SF elements in DH are in the concepts themselves rather than the actual portrayal – apart from Topher’s chair, as you say. I am still concerned by the budget cuts, as I doubt Whedon would choose to have less money to play around with, but I guess DH was never as ‘lavish’ as some SF shows anyway.

I’ve heard a lot of people mention “Briar Rose” in a positive light – to be honest I can’t remember if I’ve seen bits and pieces from that episode or not, but I’ll definitely keep an eye out for it when going back through the season. I have heard/seen elements from the finale, although I’ll have to contextualise it by seeing the lead-in episodes in full.

Good point about Nielsen ratings. I don’t want to sound supportive of the current system as it doesn’t give a full reflection of what and how people are watching. But maybe this is a sign of change..I can see where you’re coming from on that. I do still have reservations about this ‘victory’ and what it means for average shows that get renewed in future, but there are good aspects to it.

I agree with you re: the portrayal of Echo – and that’s all I’ll say about that for now! ๐Ÿ˜€

Oh, yeah I did go back and post an update in the post. It will be interesting to see how that episode plays out. I’m guessing it will be VERY ‘standalone’ though. (I didn’t know that it will premiere in Swedon, but I can see why, there seems to be a lot of DH fans in Swedon).

Anyways, good to hear from ya Phoenix! If the later half of the season is as good as people say it is, then I’m sure I’ll enjoy it more than the first half. From what I’ve seen of those episodes I think the signs are good on the whole.

wiesengrund May 19, 2009 at 4:53 am

I was also a tad offended by “Good for them, theyโ€™ve allowed fans to drive themselves crazy over a show which most were always going to love, regardless of the actual quality – seriously, some people went wild for the โ€˜backup singer episodeโ€™ – and theyโ€™ve filled their pockets.” Implying blind obedience is never nice, since especially Dollhouse had the fandom basically split with the premiere and it was a long shot from “every Whedon fan loves it automatically”. I think by episode 9 (well, in a way by episode 6, but with 9 I think the fandom went nuts) it has earned our love. Most of the discussions I’ve read about it included very critical points of view and a lot of people acknowledged that apparent weakness of the first 5 episode. Hell, it’s become common sense to not like them and only talk about the “second half of the season”. That doesn’t sound like a blindly obedient fanbase to me.

As for “theyโ€™ll be going through exactly the same thing next season”… I don’t mind that, if the outcome is the same. ๐Ÿ™‚ If this first season proves anything, it’s that Fox doesn’t look so much at ratings on Friday night 9pm. If they don’t, I won’t.

Roco May 19, 2009 at 6:16 am

Sorry to hear that Wiesengrund. My aim is not to offend DH fans, or anyone for that matter. Of course, I apologise if you felt this was an attack on you, but it wasn’t intended that way.

Now, I stand by what I said – the quote you pulled out seems fine to me, but let me try to soften the edges:

I do believe that a vast amount of DH fans were ALWAYS going to love the show (just like many fans who admire other writers/producers). I referenced a poll that I had on here a few months ago as evidence, as well as my own observations. It’s also worth noting that some folks went OTT in their support for back-up singer episode, probably out of loyalty or defiance – now compare that to what they’re now saying about the later episodes. Hey, that’s fine..but it’s also true, IMO.

These aren’t intended as harsh words, I’m not saying they’re wrong to feel the way they do, and I’m certainly open to mis-reading the situation, but it’s my opinion and I stand by it.

I have no doubt that there has been critical opinion since episodes 6-9, but remember, I’m talking prior to that – you can’t seriously tell me that a fair size of the Whedon fan-base weren’t going to love the show no matter what?

Yeah, but the trouble is, the outcome might not BE the same! ๐Ÿ™‚ It’s just funny that a lot of fans went to great lengths to abuse the Friday slot..and it’s the Friday slot that has saved the show. It’s also the same Friday slot that folks are now saying will save the show in future seasons, even if only Whedonites are watching.

I just find it interesting..

wiesengrund May 19, 2009 at 11:41 am

Yes, I am, I am actually telling you, that these first episodes were far from a “Hail it all!” consensus. Look at it that way: Your own site was one of the major Dollhouse fansites pre-premiere, and you didn’t exactly rave about them. Look at how Dollverse, the probably most important source of news to the fans, covered the pilot. That’s two major fansites being very critical of the show, and I can’t name one that was OTT hailing anything. I can’t find critics out there hailing them as good TV (maybe on or two for “The Target”). It’s just not true that all of the Whedon fanbase went nuts over the first episodes just because they blindly followed every move of their leader. Maybe some of the comments here did, but it just doesn’t seem like a fair generalization to me.

I do agree that most of the Whedon-fans tuned it at first because of Joss, as your poll suggested. Hell, my interest in the show was born out of my interest for Joss. But that poll you had didn’t say anything about whether the people liked the show. It just explained their original interest in it, and a lot of them turned away after “Ghost” (and a lot of later episodes too) because they didn’t like what they saw. And not just the fans, if Dollhouse was consistent in one thing this first season, it was in losing viewers.

Now, as for Friday, sure there was a switch in tone. I hope there is. Because Fox has proven that Friday was not a deathslot. Of course people will react to that shift in tone. It is unprecedented that such a low-rated show gets renewed . Why shouldn’t people acknowledge that?

Roco May 20, 2009 at 3:57 am

Well obviously our perspectives are different. That’s OK though, it would be boring if we all saw things the same way and ended up with the same interpretations.

I’m not saying your opinion isn’t valid, I’m just telling you my perspective, which you don’t seem willing to accept has holding any validity.

Anyway..

I’m not saying that ‘all’ Whedon fans went “nuts” over the show in its early run..I said “many”. For you to claim that as being impossible is your choice. But outside of WD and one or two other outlets, many Whedon fans seemed to make sure that they loved the show, seemingly because it was from Whedon and they didn’t want DH to go the same way as his other productions. Fair dues, this is their right.

This is what I saw wiesengrund. It’s not a fabrication, it’s my perspective.

I also saw a lot of DH fans tear T:SCC to shreds, claiming it as being the reason for the failure of their own baby. Yet, when PB replaced it, DH ratings continued to decline. Go figure.

Of course you interpret things differently from myself, that’s cool. But from my angle, many DH fans ensured that they loved the show no matter what, and they weren’t going to let anything get in the way or change that. Their mind was made up — 1.01, 1.02, 1.03 were GREAT episodes. Which must make the later episodes the best thing on TV ever, right?

Anyway, it’s a game of opinions. The question for me now is, are the remaining episodes actually any good in my opinion. That’s what I’m interested in and that’s why I started posting again.

You should know that at this stage, my opinion is hardly going to change JUST because the show got renewed. Frankly I don’t take something for a given.

As for Friday, that may be the case, but DH still kind of died in the Friday slot..ratings wise, I mean. Sure Fox renewed it but Fox are taking your money and laughing hard. The outpouring of fan promises to buy DVD’s for a show that received terrible ratings and will now cost $50 to produce next season. Seriously, you have to hand it to them, they did the right thing from a financial POV.

Don’t get me wrong, I obviously have no problem with folks buying DVD’s and merch if and when they really want to..there’s also no problem with informing people and telling them that these things may help the show. But the levels that some people go to so that they can give their money away in these difficult economic times. It kind of cheapens the whole ‘victory’ to me. I mean, yeah, they’ve got their show, but they had to spend huge amounts of money to offset the millions who weren’t watching the show.

It seems that supporting shows by watching them isn’t enough these days. Fans have to go above and beyond what the creators are willing to do to save their own show. I fail to see this as a viable business model…for the fans. Heh.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree wiesengrund – there’s no harm in that.

wiesengrund May 20, 2009 at 5:27 am

I don’t claim it’s impossible. I claim it’s impossible for me, you or anybody else to guess the intentions of fan love. and for a self-proclaimed “non-Whedon worshipper” to claim that many Whedon-worshippers loved it not because of the quality (which obviously, from your objective perspective, wasn’t there) but because of their blind obedience. That’s looking into their heads, finding intentions, and packing it up in a bit condescending way. That’s what I reacted to.

I can tell you that my feeling that there certainly wasn’t a “many will love it anyway”-vibe present in these early weeks was informed by discussion at whedonesque.com and dollhousetvforum.com. These are my sources, from which I don’t see your generalization holding up.

And that ties into your argument about Friday, too. See, in your opinion, DH was obviously crap. So from that perspective, you say, the people that liked it, liked it because of Whedon, not because of the show. And these people (mindless sheeps that they are) were then tricked by Fox into buying stuff to ensure a renewal. And you are now having pity for them, because they threw away money in financially critical times.

Please tell me you see the little condescending attitude in that way of thinking. You are basically denying me (one of the many DH fans that love the show and pre-ordered the DVD) my right to choose and to think. I wasn’t tricked by anybody. I took a look, and I loved what I saw. And I spent money so that I can get more. Because I wanted to. I wouldn’t dare to claim to be able to see into anyone else’s head and say that they didn’t want to, but were tricked into it.

Tearing down other shows because of the ratings was always a crazy idea, I don’t know how people come to such conclusions. Totally there with you. ๐Ÿ™‚

I’m looking forward to read your thoughts (if you post them) on the later episodes. I think the season improved over it’s run, so maybe you will like them. Interested to find out.

Roco May 20, 2009 at 6:39 am

You’re right, it’s impossible for anyone to guess the intentions of all fans, but that’s not what I’m doing. I’m suggesting that “many” fans will do whatever they can do show their gratitude to Whedon. You call it “obedience”, which I agree, is a rather condescending word..but that is not the word I used..that’s your word. I have no problems in suggesting that many Whedon fans loved the show before it even aired, because that is my take on things. I’m not “dissing” those people, I’m just questioning how much of an accurate gauge fan response can be in this community.

I think my suggestion holds up incredibly well actually. But we’re looking at this from different angles so we’re going to disagree, I guess.

“Crap” is a harsh word, and it’s one I have never used to describe DH. See, you’re putting words into my keyboard ๐Ÿ˜‰

Seriously though, if I thought DH was “crap”, I’d say so. I’m hardly going to hide my opinion from fear of burning touches. As it goes, I don’t think the show was “crap” – I certainly saw value in those 6 episodes (I can’t fully judge the rest yet)..the underlying themes and concepts were fancinating and deserved exploration. However a lot of the acting was ropey and the writing, at times, was disjointed and contrieved.

I think a lot of people who have a problem with me and my site are those who can’t understand that a person can appreciate elements of something without loving the whole. Haven’t you ever ordered food at a restaurant, looked forward to it arriving on your table and once it arrived, you tasted it, and it didn’t live up to what it could have been? Now, does that make you think that food is “crap”, that you never want to eat again?

And that’s my point. I’m not a fan of the show as of yet, I’m not a Whedonite. I’m not a Duskunite (or whatever). I haven’t come into this with an undying love for Whedon’s works (perhaps Buffy in the early days). I loved some of the DH themes but I see no reason to butter something up as being awesome, when that’s not what I truely believe. This site has no slant, no desire to impress anyone or to reel out weekly pro-DH articles to get in with the in-crowd, which is actually fairly small. It’s an independant fan site in the purest sense – I’m a fan of the themes. I say what I think. I don’t disrespect the show. I don’t call any of the actors or writers “crap”. I don’t take it overly seriously. I give my opinion — because if I didn’t give my honest opinion then what would be the point? If some ‘fans’ can’t deal with that then it says more about them and their inability to see the bigger picture.

No, I’m saying that “many” of the Whedon fans who liked it made up their minds that they were going to like it regardless of the quality. I see nothing wrong with that statement. You’re the one calling them “mindless sheeps”, wiesengrund, not me. I’m also not saying they were “tricked” by Fox into buying DVD’s..I’m saying that Fox took advantage of fans waving dollars under their noses, largely from being overly pressured into buying DVD’s and doing ‘their bit’ to ‘save the show’. As I said, there’s nothing wrong with informing – I’ve done it myself with shows that I like. But when it borders on ‘pressure’ and people perhaps feeling ostrocised if they don’t get their pre-order on, well..it could make for useful material for one of Whedon’s shows about identity and the sacrifices some of us make to feel a part of something. Or not.

No, I don’t have pity on DH fans who spent their hard earned money to save a show with terrible viewing figures and demos. [I save pity for starving children and the like]. It’s good for DH fans and it’s good for Fox. But when the dust settles some may feel a bit peeved from having to pay > $30 for a 13 episode DVD in order to save the show. What an obligation! Are we going to do the same thing next year? What about the year after? Is this a business model fans can sustain, or have ‘we’ created a monster?

Personally, I’d prefer not to ‘have’ to pay in order to save a poorly watched show that Fox just slams right back into the Friday slot after all of my financial support. So, no, I don’t see that as being condescending, I see it as being an opinion on the situation – and you have to admit, it’s a pretty unique situation considering the viewing figures.

I seriously don’t believe that I am denying you your right to choose and think – that is a bit much, isn’t it? I’m not imposing my views on anyone, I’m not uploading my persona into your mind and telling you what to do, nor am I sending you to the attic. Perhaps it’s a poor choice of words on your part, but I am all about opinion and so is this blog, so I can only dust that off my shoulder. Sorry.

Also, you shouldn’t see this as a judgement on YOU. Nor a judgement on ALL Whedon fans, as I’ve already said. I’m sure you did love the show and wanted full well to buy the DVD without anyone making you feel obliged to chip into the Whedon cause.

Maybe I will like the episodes. I am hopeful! Although I’ve learned to accept the fact that on this blog, there will be those who will find my views infuriating because they feel that I don’t have a right to talk about Whedon or his shows. Unfortunately for them, I have every right. ๐Ÿ™‚

wiesengrund May 21, 2009 at 2:43 am

For me, it is equally impossible to guess intentions of “many” fans as it is for “all” fans or for “one” fan. The problem is not the quantifier, it’s the basic idea that one can guess a hidden intention that is no where explicitly stated (as far as I recall, nobody ever said anything like: “The show’s not good, but I love it cause it’s Whedon!”).

I have, btw, no problem with the way you run WD, it’s a great site, and I like to read your comments and critiques of the show. Just to be clear on that. I’ve never suggested you should write only positive things just because you’re interested in the themes, or that you should hand it over (like someone upthread suggested) to “real” fans.

Yeah, and I obviously rephrased your comments, trying to make clear what I got out of them. Sorry, if it was over the edge. But guessing the intentions of “many” and saying that they didn’t recognize the missing quality of the show itself, instead choosing to love it anyway because of Tha Masta is implying blind obedience (as I said in my first comment… you didn’t spell it out, you just implied it). If you say “blind obedience” and “mindless sheeps” has nothing to do with what you meant to say, that the true meaning of your comments is completely void of such things, then I really have misunderstood you. Because that was the vibe I got out of it. If the vibe’s wrong, maybe you can help me clear it up. Because I also don’t see any difference between “tricked” and “pressured”. Nobody pressured me into buying a DVD. That’s what I meant by “the right to choose”. If you say “Many fans HAD to pay, they were PRESSURED” you are (again that word ๐Ÿ™‚ ) implying that without the pressure they maybe wouldn’t have payed for it, that their freedom of choice was compromised by Fox. (To clarify: I didn’t mean that YOU were denying me my right to choose. I meant that you were saying that Fox did it.) I bought this DVD just like a bought any other DVD of a TV show I watch. 20th Century Fox put out a Season Recap that’s basically promoting the DVD, that’s all the promo I saw. The fans made a DVD push on twitter, not Fox.

And on the other hand, yeah, “we” created a monster. Back then, when we created capitalism. Are you suggesting that no fan should ever feel the need to spend money on his beloved show? I don’t quite understand the “Personally, Iโ€™d prefer not to โ€˜haveโ€™ to pay in order to save a poorly watched show that Fox just slams right back into the Friday slot after all of my financial support.” quote. On what grounds should Fox judge the financial merit of a show? I think they’re right to judge it on the profit they make with it. Sticking it back on Friday for me just means: “We will continue to have low ratings expectations from you guys.” I don’t see that in any way translating my DVD pre-order as a “pressured” waste of money.

I know that you didn’t specifically address ME in your comments. I just wanted to point out that saying “many” instead of “all” and “pressured” instead of “tricked” doesn’t change the tone of your argument. I felt as being part of these “many” you referred to, having participated in all manners of fandom during the show’s run. Now, it’s nice of you to say “I’m judging the many out there, not you wiesengrund.” But that’s, again, only changing the quantifier by adding an exception, not the judgmental/condescending tone. Since you’re not to going to change your views on the “many” fans our there, I guess there’s no point for me to continue to express my feelings towards your comments. I’ll have to accept that that’s your view of us/them, and that my attempt to shed some light on the whole topic from the perspective of someone who has been participating in the fandom you are judging isn’t going to bear fruits.

Looking forward to reading more interesting posts and comments on this site.

Bad Mouth May 19, 2009 at 2:18 pm

Actually some of the later episodes in series one weren’t that bad compared to the earlier ones, especially the ones that concentrated on actors other than Eliza Dushku. But the plot really was all over the place and the viewing figures were terrible (1.0 share for finale). So it was very surprising that it was renewed (I mean does anybody really LOVE this show??) But it seems that Roco hit the nail on the head with the point about money. It is a (relatively) cheap show to produce (compared with TSCC) and the profits all go to Fox. For my part, I just tuned in to groan at the cliches and then read critical blogs…

Roco May 20, 2009 at 5:00 am

I’m looking forward to those ensemble episodes.

Alicia-Marie May 19, 2009 at 11:40 pm

Can you change the name of your site from a fansite to a dis-site because I’m finding it hard to see the fan in you. And frankly I think you should hand over the reigns to someone who actually is instead of continuing to run this site.

Roco May 20, 2009 at 3:32 am

No. I don’t cater to your inability to not find this site, Alicia. ๐Ÿ™‚ Seriously, you really don’t have to be here if you’re too delicate to handle a non-Whedon worshiping site.

I’ve already stated numerous times that 6 episodes in I’m not a fan. I’m a fan of the premise and underlying themes. Sheesh.

As for handing over the reigns, it sounds like you want to send WD to the Attic. Remember, Alicia: “You can wipe away the memory, but can you wipe away the soul?” ๐Ÿ˜‰

Monica May 23, 2009 at 10:37 pm

I don’t understand this. I followed a link from a fearnet.com article where they had interviews from Dollhouse “experts” about the direction the show is going, and came here.

You obviously dislike the show, of which you’ve admittedly only watched half the episodes, yet you’ve spent hours writing long, long posts and comment replies criticizing the show, the fanbase, the creator, the network… hell, anything that has to do with the show except um.. its “themes and ideas”. Um… ok.

Why do you even bother running one of the most obviously prominent “fan”-sites when you couldn’t even bother to finish a very short season, and obviously hate it? Don’t you have something better to do with your time than to spend it gloating over your own superiority to others’ over what is simply a TV show?

Roco May 24, 2009 at 5:56 am

Hello Monica.

YES, I do have better things to do with my time, hence why I stopped watching after 6 episodes. ๐Ÿ™‚ Have a little read back through the site and you will better understand my reasons for stopping, and why I am now catching up with the episodes.

Your comments are pretty wide of the mark though. You say that DH is “only a TV show”, and yet you’re the one getting all irate about someone’s OPINIONS on said TV show. I think you need a reality check.

And yeah, I find value in the premise and themes of the show – is that a problem? Many people only watch to see Dushku wearing next to nothing. I think I’m OK. ๐Ÿ™‚

As for criticizing the show, etc – yes – this is the point of the site. It’s not a worship site, it’s not the Temple of Whedon. DH is in the entertainment industry – it’s up for discussion. Not everything that shines is golden, my friend.

If you want a candy-flossed opinion of DH hit up Google ๐Ÿ˜‰ Otherwise, chill, it’s not that serious.

Peace!

Page 48 June 14, 2009 at 7:46 pm

I can’t see the renewal as being anything other than FOX’s way of saying to Whedon, “Joss, we owe ya one for that “Firefly” fiasco”.

Trying to right old wrongs, what else could it be? Unfortunately, renewing DH won’t bring FF back.

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