Trying to right old wrongs, what else could it be? Unfortunately, renewing DH won’t bring FF back.

YES, I do have better things to do with my time, hence why I stopped watching after 6 episodes. Have a little read back through the site and you will better understand my reasons for stopping, and why I am now catching up with the episodes.

Your comments are pretty wide of the mark though. You say that DH is “only a TV show”, and yet you’re the one getting all irate about someone’s OPINIONS on said TV show. I think you need a reality check.

And yeah, I find value in the premise and themes of the show – is that a problem? Many people only watch to see Dushku wearing next to nothing. I think I’m OK.

As for criticizing the show, etc – yes – this is the point of the site. It’s not a worship site, it’s not the Temple of Whedon. DH is in the entertainment industry – it’s up for discussion. Not everything that shines is golden, my friend.

If you want a candy-flossed opinion of DH hit up Google Otherwise, chill, it’s not that serious.

Peace!

You obviously dislike the show, of which you’ve admittedly only watched half the episodes, yet you’ve spent hours writing long, long posts and comment replies criticizing the show, the fanbase, the creator, the network… hell, anything that has to do with the show except um.. its “themes and ideas”. Um… ok.

Why do you even bother running one of the most obviously prominent “fan”-sites when you couldn’t even bother to finish a very short season, and obviously hate it? Don’t you have something better to do with your time than to spend it gloating over your own superiority to others’ over what is simply a TV show?

I have, btw, no problem with the way you run WD, it’s a great site, and I like to read your comments and critiques of the show. Just to be clear on that. I’ve never suggested you should write only positive things just because you’re interested in the themes, or that you should hand it over (like someone upthread suggested) to “real” fans.

Yeah, and I obviously rephrased your comments, trying to make clear what I got out of them. Sorry, if it was over the edge. But guessing the intentions of “many” and saying that they didn’t recognize the missing quality of the show itself, instead choosing to love it anyway because of Tha Masta is implying blind obedience (as I said in my first comment… you didn’t spell it out, you just implied it). If you say “blind obedience” and “mindless sheeps” has nothing to do with what you meant to say, that the true meaning of your comments is completely void of such things, then I really have misunderstood you. Because that was the vibe I got out of it. If the vibe’s wrong, maybe you can help me clear it up. Because I also don’t see any difference between “tricked” and “pressured”. Nobody pressured me into buying a DVD. That’s what I meant by “the right to choose”. If you say “Many fans HAD to pay, they were PRESSURED” you are (again that word ) implying that without the pressure they maybe wouldn’t have payed for it, that their freedom of choice was compromised by Fox. (To clarify: I didn’t mean that YOU were denying me my right to choose. I meant that you were saying that Fox did it.) I bought this DVD just like a bought any other DVD of a TV show I watch. 20th Century Fox put out a Season Recap that’s basically promoting the DVD, that’s all the promo I saw. The fans made a DVD push on twitter, not Fox.

And on the other hand, yeah, “we” created a monster. Back then, when we created capitalism. Are you suggesting that no fan should ever feel the need to spend money on his beloved show? I don’t quite understand the “Personally, I’d prefer not to ‘have’ to pay in order to save a poorly watched show that Fox just slams right back into the Friday slot after all of my financial support.” quote. On what grounds should Fox judge the financial merit of a show? I think they’re right to judge it on the profit they make with it. Sticking it back on Friday for me just means: “We will continue to have low ratings expectations from you guys.” I don’t see that in any way translating my DVD pre-order as a “pressured” waste of money.

I know that you didn’t specifically address ME in your comments. I just wanted to point out that saying “many” instead of “all” and “pressured” instead of “tricked” doesn’t change the tone of your argument. I felt as being part of these “many” you referred to, having participated in all manners of fandom during the show’s run. Now, it’s nice of you to say “I’m judging the many out there, not you wiesengrund.” But that’s, again, only changing the quantifier by adding an exception, not the judgmental/condescending tone. Since you’re not to going to change your views on the “many” fans our there, I guess there’s no point for me to continue to express my feelings towards your comments. I’ll have to accept that that’s your view of us/them, and that my attempt to shed some light on the whole topic from the perspective of someone who has been participating in the fandom you are judging isn’t going to bear fruits.

Looking forward to reading more interesting posts and comments on this site.

I think my suggestion holds up incredibly well actually. But we’re looking at this from different angles so we’re going to disagree, I guess.

“Crap” is a harsh word, and it’s one I have never used to describe DH. See, you’re putting words into my keyboard

Seriously though, if I thought DH was “crap”, I’d say so. I’m hardly going to hide my opinion from fear of burning touches. As it goes, I don’t think the show was “crap” – I certainly saw value in those 6 episodes (I can’t fully judge the rest yet)..the underlying themes and concepts were fancinating and deserved exploration. However a lot of the acting was ropey and the writing, at times, was disjointed and contrieved.

I think a lot of people who have a problem with me and my site are those who can’t understand that a person can appreciate elements of something without loving the whole. Haven’t you ever ordered food at a restaurant, looked forward to it arriving on your table and once it arrived, you tasted it, and it didn’t live up to what it could have been? Now, does that make you think that food is “crap”, that you never want to eat again?

And that’s my point. I’m not a fan of the show as of yet, I’m not a Whedonite. I’m not a Duskunite (or whatever). I haven’t come into this with an undying love for Whedon’s works (perhaps Buffy in the early days). I loved some of the DH themes but I see no reason to butter something up as being awesome, when that’s not what I truely believe. This site has no slant, no desire to impress anyone or to reel out weekly pro-DH articles to get in with the in-crowd, which is actually fairly small. It’s an independant fan site in the purest sense – I’m a fan of the themes. I say what I think. I don’t disrespect the show. I don’t call any of the actors or writers “crap”. I don’t take it overly seriously. I give my opinion — because if I didn’t give my honest opinion then what would be the point? If some ‘fans’ can’t deal with that then it says more about them and their inability to see the bigger picture.

No, I’m saying that “many” of the Whedon fans who liked it made up their minds that they were going to like it regardless of the quality. I see nothing wrong with that statement. You’re the one calling them “mindless sheeps”, wiesengrund, not me. I’m also not saying they were “tricked” by Fox into buying DVD’s..I’m saying that Fox took advantage of fans waving dollars under their noses, largely from being overly pressured into buying DVD’s and doing ‘their bit’ to ‘save the show’. As I said, there’s nothing wrong with informing – I’ve done it myself with shows that I like. But when it borders on ‘pressure’ and people perhaps feeling ostrocised if they don’t get their pre-order on, well..it could make for useful material for one of Whedon’s shows about identity and the sacrifices some of us make to feel a part of something. Or not.

No, I don’t have pity on DH fans who spent their hard earned money to save a show with terrible viewing figures and demos. [I save pity for starving children and the like]. It’s good for DH fans and it’s good for Fox. But when the dust settles some may feel a bit peeved from having to pay > $30 for a 13 episode DVD in order to save the show. What an obligation! Are we going to do the same thing next year? What about the year after? Is this a business model fans can sustain, or have ‘we’ created a monster?

Personally, I’d prefer not to ‘have’ to pay in order to save a poorly watched show that Fox just slams right back into the Friday slot after all of my financial support. So, no, I don’t see that as being condescending, I see it as being an opinion on the situation – and you have to admit, it’s a pretty unique situation considering the viewing figures.

I seriously don’t believe that I am denying you your right to choose and think – that is a bit much, isn’t it? I’m not imposing my views on anyone, I’m not uploading my persona into your mind and telling you what to do, nor am I sending you to the attic. Perhaps it’s a poor choice of words on your part, but I am all about opinion and so is this blog, so I can only dust that off my shoulder. Sorry.

Also, you shouldn’t see this as a judgement on YOU. Nor a judgement on ALL Whedon fans, as I’ve already said. I’m sure you did love the show and wanted full well to buy the DVD without anyone making you feel obliged to chip into the Whedon cause.

Maybe I will like the episodes. I am hopeful! Although I’ve learned to accept the fact that on this blog, there will be those who will find my views infuriating because they feel that I don’t have a right to talk about Whedon or his shows. Unfortunately for them, I have every right.

I can tell you that my feeling that there certainly wasn’t a “many will love it anyway”-vibe present in these early weeks was informed by discussion at whedonesque.com and dollhousetvforum.com. These are my sources, from which I don’t see your generalization holding up.

And that ties into your argument about Friday, too. See, in your opinion, DH was obviously crap. So from that perspective, you say, the people that liked it, liked it because of Whedon, not because of the show. And these people (mindless sheeps that they are) were then tricked by Fox into buying stuff to ensure a renewal. And you are now having pity for them, because they threw away money in financially critical times.

Please tell me you see the little condescending attitude in that way of thinking. You are basically denying me (one of the many DH fans that love the show and pre-ordered the DVD) my right to choose and to think. I wasn’t tricked by anybody. I took a look, and I loved what I saw. And I spent money so that I can get more. Because I wanted to. I wouldn’t dare to claim to be able to see into anyone else’s head and say that they didn’t want to, but were tricked into it.

Tearing down other shows because of the ratings was always a crazy idea, I don’t know how people come to such conclusions. Totally there with you.

I’m looking forward to read your thoughts (if you post them) on the later episodes. I think the season improved over it’s run, so maybe you will like them. Interested to find out.

I’m not saying your opinion isn’t valid, I’m just telling you my perspective, which you don’t seem willing to accept has holding any validity.

Anyway..

I’m not saying that ‘all’ Whedon fans went “nuts” over the show in its early run..I said “many”. For you to claim that as being impossible is your choice. But outside of WD and one or two other outlets, many Whedon fans seemed to make sure that they loved the show, seemingly because it was from Whedon and they didn’t want DH to go the same way as his other productions. Fair dues, this is their right.

This is what I saw wiesengrund. It’s not a fabrication, it’s my perspective.

I also saw a lot of DH fans tear T:SCC to shreds, claiming it as being the reason for the failure of their own baby. Yet, when PB replaced it, DH ratings continued to decline. Go figure.

Of course you interpret things differently from myself, that’s cool. But from my angle, many DH fans ensured that they loved the show no matter what, and they weren’t going to let anything get in the way or change that. Their mind was made up — 1.01, 1.02, 1.03 were GREAT episodes. Which must make the later episodes the best thing on TV ever, right?

Anyway, it’s a game of opinions. The question for me now is, are the remaining episodes actually any good in my opinion. That’s what I’m interested in and that’s why I started posting again.

You should know that at this stage, my opinion is hardly going to change JUST because the show got renewed. Frankly I don’t take something for a given.

As for Friday, that may be the case, but DH still kind of died in the Friday slot..ratings wise, I mean. Sure Fox renewed it but Fox are taking your money and laughing hard. The outpouring of fan promises to buy DVD’s for a show that received terrible ratings and will now cost $50 to produce next season. Seriously, you have to hand it to them, they did the right thing from a financial POV.

Don’t get me wrong, I obviously have no problem with folks buying DVD’s and merch if and when they really want to..there’s also no problem with informing people and telling them that these things may help the show. But the levels that some people go to so that they can give their money away in these difficult economic times. It kind of cheapens the whole ‘victory’ to me. I mean, yeah, they’ve got their show, but they had to spend huge amounts of money to offset the millions who weren’t watching the show.

It seems that supporting shows by watching them isn’t enough these days. Fans have to go above and beyond what the creators are willing to do to save their own show. I fail to see this as a viable business model…for the fans. Heh.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree wiesengrund – there’s no harm in that.

I’ve already stated numerous times that 6 episodes in I’m not a fan. I’m a fan of the premise and underlying themes. Sheesh.

As for handing over the reigns, it sounds like you want to send WD to the Attic. Remember, Alicia: “You can wipe away the memory, but can you wipe away the soul?”