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	<title>Comments on: Mini Review: 2.12 The Hollow Men</title>
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		<title>By: DigDug</title>
		<link>http://watchingdollhouse.com/mini-review-2.12-the-hollow-men/comment-page-1/#comment-15864</link>
		<dc:creator>DigDug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 19:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://watchingdollhouse.com/?p=2373#comment-15864</guid>
		<description>Yet another great show that they cancelled. Why do they do that? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yet another great show that they cancelled. Why do they do that? </p>
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		<title>By: Frogger Online</title>
		<link>http://watchingdollhouse.com/mini-review-2.12-the-hollow-men/comment-page-1/#comment-4180</link>
		<dc:creator>Frogger Online</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://watchingdollhouse.com/?p=2373#comment-4180</guid>
		<description>I gotta say i can&#039;t believe Boyd is a baddie!! I never saw that coming.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gotta say i can&#039;t believe Boyd is a baddie!! I never saw that coming.  </p>
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		<title>By: AngieA</title>
		<link>http://watchingdollhouse.com/mini-review-2.12-the-hollow-men/comment-page-1/#comment-1962</link>
		<dc:creator>AngieA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 2010 19:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://watchingdollhouse.com/?p=2373#comment-1962</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been in a cave and just watched the Dollhouse series.  A lot of it doesn&#039;t gel but when I was watching it, I was eager to see where Whedon &amp; Co were going with it.   
A point you all haven&#039;t brought up, I believe is this: Echo is so vested in freeing the Dolls and taking down Rossum--when Boyd/Langton is wiped, how can she leave him there to die?  Since he was indeed a Doll, who  was the real Boyd?  Also, if there were multiple Clyde&#039;s, what about other Langton&#039;s? How does Whiskey/Clyde get out of the building and back to the LA Dollhouse?  
 
Wish I would have watched Epitaph1 again before Epitaph 2 like Phoenix advised. It seems like this series was just getting warmed up and they did their best tying up loose ends..but, it&#039;s frustrating, you know?   
Oh, well :)  Look forward to the next Whedon series!! 
  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;ve been in a cave and just watched the Dollhouse series.  A lot of it doesn&#039;t gel but when I was watching it, I was eager to see where Whedon &amp; Co were going with it.<br />
A point you all haven&#039;t brought up, I believe is this: Echo is so vested in freeing the Dolls and taking down Rossum&#8211;when Boyd/Langton is wiped, how can she leave him there to die?  Since he was indeed a Doll, who  was the real Boyd?  Also, if there were multiple Clyde&#039;s, what about other Langton&#039;s? How does Whiskey/Clyde get out of the building and back to the LA Dollhouse?  </p>
<p>Wish I would have watched Epitaph1 again before Epitaph 2 like Phoenix advised. It seems like this series was just getting warmed up and they did their best tying up loose ends..but, it&#039;s frustrating, you know?<br />
Oh, well <img src='http://watchingdollhouse.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   Look forward to the next Whedon series!! </p>
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		<title>By: Ecarylloh</title>
		<link>http://watchingdollhouse.com/mini-review-2.12-the-hollow-men/comment-page-1/#comment-1926</link>
		<dc:creator>Ecarylloh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Mar 2010 18:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://watchingdollhouse.com/?p=2373#comment-1926</guid>
		<description>I can see why you wouldn&#039;t like &#039;The Hollow Men&#039;. I must have watched it about five times now and it gets less plausible every time I watch it. However, if there&#039;s one thing Whedon does really well, it&#039;s packing en emotional punch. For me, the moments between Echo and Boyd - and especially the part where the tables are turned and she&#039;s in charge of him, teaching him how to destroy himself, gets me every time.

Incidentally, I wrote a blog post about another possible theme behind Dollhouse a little while ago - http://www.modernmythology.co.uk/?p=69 if you&#039;re interested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can see why you wouldn&#8217;t like &#8216;The Hollow Men&#8217;. I must have watched it about five times now and it gets less plausible every time I watch it. However, if there&#8217;s one thing Whedon does really well, it&#8217;s packing en emotional punch. For me, the moments between Echo and Boyd &#8211; and especially the part where the tables are turned and she&#8217;s in charge of him, teaching him how to destroy himself, gets me every time.</p>
<p>Incidentally, I wrote a blog post about another possible theme behind Dollhouse a little while ago &#8211; <a href="http://www.modernmythology.co.uk/?p=69" rel="nofollow">http://www.modernmythology.co.uk/?p=69</a> if you&#8217;re interested.</p>
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		<title>By: Roco</title>
		<link>http://watchingdollhouse.com/mini-review-2.12-the-hollow-men/comment-page-1/#comment-1898</link>
		<dc:creator>Roco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://watchingdollhouse.com/?p=2373#comment-1898</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the tip Phoenix! I should have my thoughts on the finale posted within the next few days. *fingers crossed*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the tip Phoenix! I should have my thoughts on the finale posted within the next few days. *fingers crossed*</p>
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		<title>By: Phoenix</title>
		<link>http://watchingdollhouse.com/mini-review-2.12-the-hollow-men/comment-page-1/#comment-1894</link>
		<dc:creator>Phoenix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 03:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://watchingdollhouse.com/?p=2373#comment-1894</guid>
		<description>Quick piece of advice -- if you haven&#039;t rewatched &quot;Epitaph One&quot; recently, I&#039;d advise doing that before watching &quot;Epitaph Two&quot; because it literally picks up *right* where &quot;One&quot; left off, and it&#039;s a bit confusing if you aren&#039;t fresh up on the &quot;Epitaph&quot; world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quick piece of advice &#8212; if you haven&#8217;t rewatched &#8220;Epitaph One&#8221; recently, I&#8217;d advise doing that before watching &#8220;Epitaph Two&#8221; because it literally picks up *right* where &#8220;One&#8221; left off, and it&#8217;s a bit confusing if you aren&#8217;t fresh up on the &#8220;Epitaph&#8221; world.</p>
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		<title>By: Roco</title>
		<link>http://watchingdollhouse.com/mini-review-2.12-the-hollow-men/comment-page-1/#comment-1893</link>
		<dc:creator>Roco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 00:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://watchingdollhouse.com/?p=2373#comment-1893</guid>
		<description>Hey Phoenix,

Always good to read your comments - I don&#039;t necessarily agree with some of them (in fact I think we&#039;re about to set a new record with this one ;) ) but it&#039;s great to have your perspective on things.

Once I&#039;ve watched the finale (shame on me, I haven&#039;t seen it yet) I hope to go back over a few of the points you raised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Phoenix,</p>
<p>Always good to read your comments &#8211; I don&#8217;t necessarily agree with some of them (in fact I think we&#8217;re about to set a new record with this one <img src='http://watchingdollhouse.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  ) but it&#8217;s great to have your perspective on things.</p>
<p>Once I&#8217;ve watched the finale (shame on me, I haven&#8217;t seen it yet) I hope to go back over a few of the points you raised.</p>
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		<title>By: Phoenix</title>
		<link>http://watchingdollhouse.com/mini-review-2.12-the-hollow-men/comment-page-1/#comment-1888</link>
		<dc:creator>Phoenix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 21:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://watchingdollhouse.com/?p=2373#comment-1888</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m actually in awe of you that you watched this much TV and still coherently commented on it the entire way. I wasn&#039;t gonna comment on each of your reviews so I waited for this one. By the way, I&#039;m not cyberstalking you, I was just at work most of the day and this is the funnest blog to read while killing time. 
 
The main problem was time, for season two. So much of this show would have had such a large impact if they&#039;d had more episodes to develop it. I&#039;ll start with &quot;Stop-Loss&quot;: 
 
1) They needed to show Tony&#039;s conflict longer. Him jumping right back into Scytheon was somewhat hollow because he was only free of the Dollhouse for what? Two days? 
 
2) I love Echo, especially now that she&#039;s her own person. I accept that you don&#039;t. But the cool thing about her not hurting anyone with this is that it wasn&#039;t her superpowers so much as the Dollhouse&#039;s: she has about 50 people in her right now, and the force of all of those minds overcoming the programming of the computer chips, I thought, was cool in a *very* sci fi sort of way. 
 
&quot;The Attic&quot;: 
 
1) Lawrence Dominic wasn&#039;t as much of a stretch, I felt. He was doing everything he could to protect himself in season one, and by protecting himself, he was protecting everyone. You remember that Daniel Perrin is being groomed to be the President; he wanted to prevent Rossum getting that much power. And he was right, too, to warn DeWitt that one day Echo would be erasing all of *them*. 
 
2) There are twenty-two Dollhouses worldwide, counting the one that just started in Dubai. If, say, you&#039;ve got broken dolls, enemies like Ballard, spies like Dominic, and information you don&#039;t want exposed like the Japanese man, you&#039;ve got the potential for quite a lot of people for Clyde to kill. 
 
3) The surrealism was lovely in this episode. Just FYI, it was directed by a comic book artist. And, yes, the montage was cool. 
 
4) DeWitt: Now, this I saw coming. The thing with DeWitt is that she&#039;s self-deluding. If you&#039;ve seen the VASTLY superior unaired pilot, &quot;Echo,&quot; you&#039;ll hear all of her self-justifications. Throughout season one and part of season two, she truly, deeply believed in what she felt was her mission, to give people what they needed. She was also very prideful. Her fall began when &quot;Belonging&quot; introduced her to who she was really working for, and began to break her illusions. She is not a good person by any stretch, but all of her badness has been shattered and thrown in her face to slice her open over the course of this season. The scene in the showers was her wiping herself clean. She had two choices: go bad, and go really bad, or confront what a bitch she&#039;d been (pardon my French) and fix the situation. Also, they had a Scooby Gang, albeit briefly. Go team Whedon. 
 
&quot;Getting Closer&quot;: 
 
1) Caroline is *not* a good person. You&#039;ll remember what DeWitt said: Caroline isn&#039;t evil, she&#039;s *worse* -- an idealist. Now, Caroline may have saved her friend, but do you think she really felt bad about Bennett? She used her willingly and knowingly. Caroline is a bitch, really she is. She may have good intentions, but that&#039;s what paves the road to hell. They never really redeemed her, and I thought that was an interesting twist: Echo took all of Caroline&#039;s good stuff -- wanting to save everyone, etc, and went beyond that to become a true hero. 
 
2) The shock. Oh, the shock. The visceral impact of Bennett&#039;s blood driving Topher bonkers (or starting to) was so very Whedon. 
 
3) Yes, everyone knew where the Paul thing was going. 
 
&quot;The Hollow Men&quot;: 
 
Here&#039;s where I disagree with you. I didn&#039;t think the motives were hard to figure at all, so I&#039;ll tell you what I think. 
 
Boyd is evil. He&#039;s the unassuming kind of evil, the kind that looks at a situation and sees how to benefit from it. He knew that the tech couldn&#039;t be uncreated, so he figured out how to use it to come out on top. Then, here comes Caroline. Her spinal fluid contains a gene marker that can resist the tech. With testing, he realizes that when she&#039;s wiped, the gene&#039;s expression grows stronger. But she won&#039;t fight the imprints if not placed under stress. So he sends her to the LA Dollhouse, where he knows Topher Brink is, and goes to keep an eye on her, using the handler bond to keep her loyal to him. 
 
There, he guides DeWitt where he wants her, and Topher where he wants him, all the time watching Echo become, well, Echo. He also uses the handler bond to keep himself in her trust, like when she tries to find the spy in the Dollhouse. This also makes episodes like &quot;The Target&quot; really creepy in retrospect. So, once she&#039;s strong enough, he guides her through finalizing herself, so to speak, and begins the beginning of the end. 
 
I thought &quot;The Hollow Men&quot; was fantastic. Sure, it was rushed, but still. 
 
2) The Mellie/Paul thing actually made sense, sadly. They were both dolls, and both aware of that. They really at that point only had each other to cling to, and Paul still loved the idea of Mellie, I suppose. Also, Whedon can&#039;t resist echoing the Dark Phoenix Saga in all of his works at some point, and thus Mellie must kill herself. 
 
3) The acting was amazing, even from Eliza Dushku. The end, where Boyd was wiped, was heartwrenching to watch. Also, how evil was Harry Lennix? It was fun how he revealed himself to each individual at a time. I also thought it would give you a laugh how much he didn&#039;t want Ballard around. 
 
4) Faith and Fred duked it out. Hah! 
 
5) The Echo running from explosion shot was horrible and cheesy. 
 
6) Budget. They didn&#039;t have enough money to blow the building, which was pretty unrealistic, but the idea did the job. 
 
I&#039;m glad that you seemed to enjoy the end of &quot;Dollhouse&quot; for the entertainment value, at least. Those were my thoughts, so, there they were. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m actually in awe of you that you watched this much TV and still coherently commented on it the entire way. I wasn&#039;t gonna comment on each of your reviews so I waited for this one. By the way, I&#039;m not cyberstalking you, I was just at work most of the day and this is the funnest blog to read while killing time.</p>
<p>The main problem was time, for season two. So much of this show would have had such a large impact if they&#039;d had more episodes to develop it. I&#039;ll start with &quot;Stop-Loss&quot;:</p>
<p>1) They needed to show Tony&#039;s conflict longer. Him jumping right back into Scytheon was somewhat hollow because he was only free of the Dollhouse for what? Two days?</p>
<p>2) I love Echo, especially now that she&#039;s her own person. I accept that you don&#039;t. But the cool thing about her not hurting anyone with this is that it wasn&#039;t her superpowers so much as the Dollhouse&#039;s: she has about 50 people in her right now, and the force of all of those minds overcoming the programming of the computer chips, I thought, was cool in a *very* sci fi sort of way.</p>
<p>&quot;The Attic&quot;:</p>
<p>1) Lawrence Dominic wasn&#039;t as much of a stretch, I felt. He was doing everything he could to protect himself in season one, and by protecting himself, he was protecting everyone. You remember that Daniel Perrin is being groomed to be the President; he wanted to prevent Rossum getting that much power. And he was right, too, to warn DeWitt that one day Echo would be erasing all of *them*.</p>
<p>2) There are twenty-two Dollhouses worldwide, counting the one that just started in Dubai. If, say, you&#039;ve got broken dolls, enemies like Ballard, spies like Dominic, and information you don&#039;t want exposed like the Japanese man, you&#039;ve got the potential for quite a lot of people for Clyde to kill.</p>
<p>3) The surrealism was lovely in this episode. Just FYI, it was directed by a comic book artist. And, yes, the montage was cool.</p>
<p>4) DeWitt: Now, this I saw coming. The thing with DeWitt is that she&#039;s self-deluding. If you&#039;ve seen the VASTLY superior unaired pilot, &quot;Echo,&quot; you&#039;ll hear all of her self-justifications. Throughout season one and part of season two, she truly, deeply believed in what she felt was her mission, to give people what they needed. She was also very prideful. Her fall began when &quot;Belonging&quot; introduced her to who she was really working for, and began to break her illusions. She is not a good person by any stretch, but all of her badness has been shattered and thrown in her face to slice her open over the course of this season. The scene in the showers was her wiping herself clean. She had two choices: go bad, and go really bad, or confront what a bitch she&#039;d been (pardon my French) and fix the situation. Also, they had a Scooby Gang, albeit briefly. Go team Whedon.</p>
<p>&quot;Getting Closer&quot;:</p>
<p>1) Caroline is *not* a good person. You&#039;ll remember what DeWitt said: Caroline isn&#039;t evil, she&#039;s *worse* &#8212; an idealist. Now, Caroline may have saved her friend, but do you think she really felt bad about Bennett? She used her willingly and knowingly. Caroline is a bitch, really she is. She may have good intentions, but that&#039;s what paves the road to hell. They never really redeemed her, and I thought that was an interesting twist: Echo took all of Caroline&#039;s good stuff &#8212; wanting to save everyone, etc, and went beyond that to become a true hero.</p>
<p>2) The shock. Oh, the shock. The visceral impact of Bennett&#039;s blood driving Topher bonkers (or starting to) was so very Whedon.</p>
<p>3) Yes, everyone knew where the Paul thing was going.</p>
<p>&quot;The Hollow Men&quot;:</p>
<p>Here&#039;s where I disagree with you. I didn&#039;t think the motives were hard to figure at all, so I&#039;ll tell you what I think.</p>
<p>Boyd is evil. He&#039;s the unassuming kind of evil, the kind that looks at a situation and sees how to benefit from it. He knew that the tech couldn&#039;t be uncreated, so he figured out how to use it to come out on top. Then, here comes Caroline. Her spinal fluid contains a gene marker that can resist the tech. With testing, he realizes that when she&#039;s wiped, the gene&#039;s expression grows stronger. But she won&#039;t fight the imprints if not placed under stress. So he sends her to the LA Dollhouse, where he knows Topher Brink is, and goes to keep an eye on her, using the handler bond to keep her loyal to him.</p>
<p>There, he guides DeWitt where he wants her, and Topher where he wants him, all the time watching Echo become, well, Echo. He also uses the handler bond to keep himself in her trust, like when she tries to find the spy in the Dollhouse. This also makes episodes like &quot;The Target&quot; really creepy in retrospect. So, once she&#039;s strong enough, he guides her through finalizing herself, so to speak, and begins the beginning of the end.</p>
<p>I thought &quot;The Hollow Men&quot; was fantastic. Sure, it was rushed, but still.</p>
<p>2) The Mellie/Paul thing actually made sense, sadly. They were both dolls, and both aware of that. They really at that point only had each other to cling to, and Paul still loved the idea of Mellie, I suppose. Also, Whedon can&#039;t resist echoing the Dark Phoenix Saga in all of his works at some point, and thus Mellie must kill herself.</p>
<p>3) The acting was amazing, even from Eliza Dushku. The end, where Boyd was wiped, was heartwrenching to watch. Also, how evil was Harry Lennix? It was fun how he revealed himself to each individual at a time. I also thought it would give you a laugh how much he didn&#039;t want Ballard around.</p>
<p>4) Faith and Fred duked it out. Hah!</p>
<p>5) The Echo running from explosion shot was horrible and cheesy.</p>
<p>6) Budget. They didn&#039;t have enough money to blow the building, which was pretty unrealistic, but the idea did the job.</p>
<p>I&#039;m glad that you seemed to enjoy the end of &quot;Dollhouse&quot; for the entertainment value, at least. Those were my thoughts, so, there they were. </p>
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