Tim Minear On What Dollhouse Season 3 Would Have Been (Hint: Like Buffy)

by admin on January 4, 2011 · 41 comments

Dollhouse executive producer, Tim Minear revealed to Assignment X that Dollhouse Season 3 would have seen Echo evolve into a suped-up version of Buffy.

Minear on the third season of Dollhouse that will never be:

“What I think we came to was, by having Echo become this sort of superhero and having her become the sum of all these different imprints, of all these parts, and allow her to become this sentient being with [all of this incorporated into her], we found a way to make her a character. I think the problem in Season One was, you had this concept that sounds great when you’re pitching it, but when you sit down to write it, it’s, “Okay, so now we’re writing a show about a main character who can’t remember what happened last week.” Which I think was a little boring for the audience, because they’re so far ahead of her. So when we started allowing her to remember things, and then started taking the concept and making it into what her superpower was, it started turning into something else. I think what you would have seen in Season Three is [a series] a lot more embracing of its mythology and turned into more of a superhero show. It would have been a little bit more like BUFFY in some ways.”

More commentary and views over at Seriable.

Is this the Dollhouse you would have wanted to see?

source: Assignment X

Robert January 30, 2011 at 10:22 am

"Is this the Dollhouse you would have wanted to see?"

Actually, no. I loved Dollhouse and was very sad that it was cancelled after only two seasons. But if season 3 would have been about "superhero Echo", I am almost glad that they didn´t produce it.

chris June 10, 2012 at 12:46 pm

I totally agree, i love how it used to be especially when echo was a clueless babe which was very sexy, im just at season 2 now and i am starting to not like the strange episodes like the one based in 2019 and the one where echo is a dead person. i liked when she was sent out on spy missions and things like that. The rossum college one was good and that was strange but it had a good storyline which was actually linked with the doll house properly.

Diana February 4, 2011 at 1:52 pm

I would have liked to see Echo/Caroline say I am not nobody and then through flashbacks realize that she was actually Faith Lehane instead ! It would have been great if the Buffy characters appeared on Dollhouse. Then go back to contiue the Buffy the Vamprie Slayer storyline! Maybe that would be a great place for the new Buffy movie to start with instead of a remake the original Buffy movie!

Stephanie April 15, 2011 at 12:18 pm

That would be an awful idea. Your just obsessed with buffy and cant get over it. Let dollhouse have its short lived moment of fame!

Tone February 21, 2011 at 8:57 pm

I think they tried to get to the end of the story too fast. They should have dragged the idea of the first season(before echo evolves and when shes still doing engagements) to make at least another season.

If they made a dollhouse season 3, it would completely remove the idea of the original concept which was the main draw for us hardcore dollhouse fans.

As for the ‘buffy’ sort of idea, i think thats just stupid. Echo would become a myth, a ledgend and hope to those not caught in rossums grip. Hope for them to stay alive and fight for the freedom of the world.

They could easily get another 8 seasons of dollhouse, with the last episode being the beggining of the original epilogue.

Oh and if ANYONE other than eliza EVER plays echo it would ruin the entire series, eliza is echo and will always be.

chris June 10, 2012 at 12:48 pm

You can say that again!

David Hughes February 23, 2011 at 4:19 pm

The first two seasons developed the foundation for putting Echo, Adelle (and eventually, Alpha and Victor) at the head of a new and better, more compassionate, more heroic dollhouse in a time when the inevitable chaos of the post-apocalyptic outside world needs an intercessor.

Let's face it, we could use a benevolent Dollhouse out here, today, that would develop the neuroscience to treat mental disorders and optimize the evolution of mankind, as well as provide the occasional action hero.

MaryD December 16, 2011 at 7:59 am

As the show well proves, a benevolent dollhouse can quickly turn into something much more sinister. True, the technology would mean that we could help cure psychological disorders and brain damage, but it would also mean that the zombie apocalypse, the TRUE zombie apocalypse, would never happen. Instead we would be plagued by what we saw at the end of season 1. Personally, i prefer the shuffling, stupidity zombie apocalypse.

Louise March 7, 2011 at 12:07 am

i would have loved to see season 3 and am very very disappointed that they cancelled it!!
why bother airing 2 seasons if you going to drop the fans by not showing the conclusion of the story in season 3!

Anatolie April 12, 2011 at 12:07 am

I don’t think a third season would have worked. The second season resolved the show thoroughly for me. Having Echo just go and be a superhero isn’t terribly original; it would have felt like the show was trying to eke out another plot line for the sake of continuing the show. I like Joss Whedon’s stuff because it’s always something new, so turning Echo into another Buffy just wouldn’t have been interesting to me. We’ve seen that sort of thing before.
Also, I wouldn’t have wanted to watch it without Topher in it!

David F. April 14, 2011 at 7:02 pm

That sounds…. boring and predictable. Very generic.

I'm glad it ended when it did if this is the direction the show was going to take.

Diana April 17, 2011 at 1:27 pm

It would have been interesting to see the Scooby Gang actually in the Dollhouse with Caroline/Echo if she had awaken as Faith. That would have really been interesting. Also, it could have been feasible for the Scooby Gang to arrive in Los Angeles from Sunnydale. That would really been a plot twist. You have to have Faith.

Diana April 17, 2011 at 1:56 pm

If Dollhouse had Caroline/Echo wake up as Faith that could be interesting. Maybe instead Faith could wake up from a coma. BecauseI think that the Scooby Gang could make it to Los Angeles. Maybe they could run into Angel and go from there. Help Angel fight in the big Battle. All of the series ended with big battles. Maybe even with a few plot twists along the way. That would make an interesting season 8 for Buffy or a movie. You have to have Faith. There would be no need to use the comic books. Also, it could feature the original cast. There would be no need to cast a new Buffy. That would be great.

Diana April 17, 2011 at 2:18 pm

Speaking of Dolllhouse. The phrase Did I Fall Asleep was first stated by Xander from Buffy the Vampire Slayer in Season 2 in the episode The Dark Age. So it could work. You have to have Faith.

Diana April 18, 2011 at 11:17 am

It would seem logical that it could happen since both Angel and Dollhouse are located in Los Angeles. It would have made a great crossover. It would have been fun to see the Scooby Gang in Los Angeles. By having Caroline/Echo wake up as Faith would have been interesting and it could be logical. What happen after the fall of Sunnydale. That way the original cast could be used without starting with a new Slayer. What is wrong with Science Fiction being logical?

Diana April 18, 2011 at 11:26 am

When Buffy ended they were on a school bus from Sunnydale. A school bus could easily make it to the city of Los Angeles. If the Dollhouse existed in Los Angeles then why didn't Angel investigations investigate it years ago? Since it was located in Los Angeles. See it could work.

Diana April 18, 2011 at 12:43 pm

It is extremely clever that Joss Whedon has three different tv series yet have the possiblity of being able to have crossover potential. Since two of the series were located in Los Angeles. That is why I think it could have actually worked out. None of the comic book storylines would be necessary for tv. There would no be Xander and Dawn romance. Maybe even some real twists and turns. That is what I would have liked to see.

Diana April 18, 2011 at 2:14 pm

On Dollhouse they used the phrase the Tabula Rasa effect. That nothing is as it is supposed to be. That was defintely from the Buffy the Vampire Slayer series. With the introduction of the character Dawn didn't the Scooby Gang have their memories altered since she is not real instead being the key. So in a sense didn't all of the characters on Buffy the Vamprie Slayer in a way have their memories replaced or altered? Therefore it could be possible for a Buffy the Vampire Slayer crossover with Dollhouse. It would be interesting. Only using the TV series for storylines and not the comic books.

Diana April 18, 2011 at 7:42 pm

I admit that having so many potenial Slayers in Season 7 of Buffy was a bad idea. They were too young and uninteresting or boring! However, by using Dollhouse maybe we could change that memory to eliminate the potentials and focus on the Scooby Gang. That is why that I would like to have Caroline/Echo wake up and she is Faith. I would like to see who really ends up with Buffy. Whether it will be Angel or Spike that Shantsu's. Also, I would like a story with Giles featuring Ethan Rayne. Something from Giles's past that was never done of the series. Maybe Rosseum Corporation and Wolfram and Hart could be featured also with the Watchers Council. I do not think that the cast members are too old for more storylines for either TV or a movie.

Diana April 18, 2011 at 7:58 pm

Also, I wish that Ethan Rayne could have escaped from the Government facility and had ties to the Dollhouse. Too bad Ethan Rayne could have admitted that he sent Dawn and create and use Glory to kill Buffy to get revenge on Giles for having Riley capture him in season 4 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. That might be interesting having all the memories created or changed by Dawn could be improved. I would love to have seen Adelle de Witt and Ethan Rayne working together. That is why that I would like to see Caroline/Echo wake up and she is Faith.

Diana April 19, 2011 at 2:40 am

Also, it would have been wonderful having Caroline/Echo from Dollhouse wake up and she is Faith for another reason. Secrets could have been revealed about Buffy that the Watchers Council have been hiding for seven years. It would be a backstory about Giles and something that Ethan Rayne never would have figured out. Now that would be the ultimate storyline for Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Even better than a new Slayer or a reboot with a new actress playing Buffy. It could have the orignal cast members in it.

Diana April 20, 2011 at 9:15 am

Does Giles being Buffy's Watcher even know about the Shantsu prophency? If he does not know about it, when will he find out about it? Does Giles know about Wolfram and Hart? Could Rosseum Corporation be working against Wolfram and Hart? That would be another question that could be explored if Caroline/Echo woke up and she is really Faith! There must be a storyline that could be told without using a new Slayer or any of the potential Slayers. A new movie could explore these questions and use the cast from the Tv series. The best thing is to use information that was introduced on the TV series. There would be no need to use the comic book storyline for a movie.

MasterJace July 19, 2012 at 7:55 pm

Yawn, and what if it all took place on a spaceship and the new Slayer is named River Tam, and instead of fighting Vampires, Daemons, Witches, and all that she get’s to kill Reavers and is CO Pilot of the Serenity. And Wolfram and Hart really have turned into the evil Alliance doctors and scientists. Would you like me to go on, we could even do a time travel thing and have them all meet up in 1986?

“Did you really think you could just walk into the Dollhouse? When everyone knows it doesn’t exist.”

Ricky April 21, 2011 at 12:07 am

Yes but you have got to think about how Echo/Caroline would be like if she woke up as Faith with all those memories….It seems likely she would have a mental breakdown. Imagine if you woke up out of a coma to realize everything you thought was real was a dream. She would be in no fit state for the rest of the movie or at least over 75% of it and if she did come around then it would feel very un-realistic and wrong.

Ricky April 21, 2011 at 12:12 am

And you have to remember Paul because that alone already creates a MASSIVE problem for Faith. Being Faith she doesn't know how to handle love as her…..but even that was a dream that would mess up anybody 🙁

StevieLove July 3, 2011 at 12:08 am

Jesus, Diana. I love Buffy as much as the next guy, but come on. You're pushing it way to far.Here's a big, glaring problem with why the Dollhouse Universe is separate from the Buffyverse: Certain actors have already been presented. Also, we have no evidence of magic in any form existing in Dollhouse. It's all science. Joss Whedon is not Stephen King. There's no reason for all of his stories to bleed together into one big meshugas.

Diana July 21, 2011 at 3:07 pm

It could have all been a dream. That the Dollhouse never really existed. That would really shock viewers. That would be one way to explain things. Like the TV series Newhart last episode that turned out to be The Bob Newhart show for example.

Echo September 15, 2011 at 4:09 pm

Diana, all you need to do is go and watch Buffy episodes over and over again. You completely missed the Dollhouse! Maybe you ‘Fell asleep”… “For a little while”!

Diana July 21, 2011 at 3:16 pm

Why I think that it would work is because Faith was in a coma. That is a dream like condition. It would have really been interesting if Carolyn or Faith had switched bodies again with Buffy. That would be something that I see Joss Whedon doing to the viewers to surprise them.

Justin July 24, 2011 at 9:53 am

I just finished watching both seasons of doll house for the first time. Incredible, thought racing, keep up with the mentality fun. I will admit, there was a little bit of dragging it out, but that ment more Echo. I think they can still make a season 3, because remember, there were doll houses all over the world, and the emp Topher set off was very, very local. Possibly have it where Boyd says he collects and tests a lot of peoples blood, use DNA cloning to incorporate Echo in the other doll houses. This would keep the main character alive, but give her a new, fresh adventure wherever she was being held at.

Echo September 15, 2011 at 4:05 pm

Diana, all you need to do is go and watch Buffy episodes over and over again. You completely missed the Dollhouse! Maybe you ‘Fell asleep”… “For a little while”!

Bert September 16, 2011 at 10:24 pm

Alakazaam-information found, problem solved, tahkns!

Jez November 7, 2011 at 10:54 am

Everything that Joss produces that I like gets cancelled. sigh.

Zack November 20, 2011 at 8:26 pm

I think they put too much emphasis on just Echo. Season one should be 3-4 characters that are beginning to retain their memories. One of them goes to the attic and stays there. Season two should be the one house hides the fact that they are allowing their actives to retain memories in an experiment. 3rd season is where the end of the world factor is brought in and is stopped in the fourth season. with 4-5 main characters.

I mean character development for each of the main characters, not just major development of Echo and small developments of the other characters.

I don’t understand the need to merge Dollhouse with Buffy. They are from completely different worlds. magic world / science world

last rant: Buffy the vampire slayer = a show all about Buffy
Dollhouse = a show that is not centered around any specific character but instead on either an idea or several characters.

Phydeux June 2, 2012 at 11:39 am

I’m tired of having Joss Whedon’s series canceled prematurely …. Firefly, and Dollhouse are, in my humble opinion, two of the best shows ever. …. it could be that my taste in entertainment is an anomaly, but to me it tastes goooood.

chris June 10, 2012 at 12:51 pm

How come every series i watch is cancled like this or chuck etc. its so annoying. do i just like crappy tv series. im pretty sure doll house isnt crap?

MasterJace July 19, 2012 at 7:18 pm

I have been looking over several different sites and reading all the messages about the show, I just watched both seasons 1-2 in 2 days. I go on binges and watch, I should point out the I am helping out a friend recovering from cancer, and when he is in High Pain mode and can not sleep we watch movies and TV until he can. We both would love to see the show come back and think that the writers left a few openings so that it could. With Alpha, Topher, and the rest you really do not know what happened to them. My friend pointed out that what if the entire ending the Epitaph thing was just another simulation and not real. That the “Zombie Apocalypse” never even happened? and Echo, Victor, everyone is still back at the house possibly in the Attic, or in some other VR simulation that Rossom has set up. That idea came about from the EP where Echo, Victor, were glitching and in an attempt to fix them they ran a simulation. The show could do a full reboot, let’s face it Fox could use the help. It’s shows suck and there are a lot worse shows that could be put back on TV. I have often thought that if I had the money I would start a network and buy, pick up and reboot shows that networks like SyFi, and Fox have cancel for no real apparent reason other then the fact that people seem to like them and they make money.

MasterJace July 19, 2012 at 7:38 pm

Random thoughts and ideas about and for the show, at least think them over. I read a lot of posts on other sites where people think that being a Doll would be fun, cool, and that it would be worth it. Others are worried about the romantic services they would need to provide, I am not going to debate the Rape thing, but I just wanted to point out, that it is not rape if when you agree to become a Doll you know what you are getting into, and when you are imprinted, the person you become agrees to sex. It would be rape if the newly imprinted Doll, or person did not agree to sex, and then was forced into it.

One major flaw that I noticed in the show was when your time was over you are given your life back, but nothing has changed other then you might have a better body. You have a better, stronger, healthier body. But what ever your issue was that made you go into the program you are going to still have it when you come out. What I would of done was made a way for Topher, to some how edit out the issues or what was causing the issue and be able to reboot the person without the problems. To me that make for a better solution to things. Take Tony/Victor he went in with PTSD and came out with it, if it could of been edited out of his original personality profile of repaired then uploaded to him at his release he would of been better for it. As it is not it is not worth going into the program if at the end all you get is the cash.

The show could go in some interesting new directions if it did a reboot, and I would like to see it. Thing like clones, the stealing of peoples minds remotely over the internet in VR, or mobile devices since everyone has at least one now. I did not like the Zombie thing I thought it was too simple that is why I think it should be some VR simulation and everyone is locked up in a lab at Rossum. Though the Chair could come in handy to treat some of the Meth heads that have been making the nightly news lately.

One final note I know it is just a show but I have been reading and checking into brain mapping, scanning tech for a few years now. I just took a friend in for a scan, and read that the human brain they think can now be downloaded to a hard-drive, and programs to help the disabled are being looked at. Could the chair be all that far away, just a thought for you.

Cat July 23, 2012 at 12:14 am

Just to clarify regarding your comment about the show’s flaw. That’s exactly what Topher did — he removed Madeline’s pain over losing her daughter, and he removed Victor’s PTSD. What happened with Victor when he was released was more rooted in his residual feelings for Sierra/Priya. That was the whole point, for their pain to be taken away after their 5 year stint in the Dollhouse.

Sara July 29, 2012 at 4:04 am

“it is not rape if when you agree to become a Doll you know what you are getting into”

Madeline was horrified when shown that her body was used a murder weapon and a sex toy. Did the pitch she received leave those very common engagements out, so she assumed they were off-limits? That can’t be called consent.

Kelsey September 12, 2012 at 8:19 pm

@MasterJace: 1) I disagree with you on the rape thing. The whole idea behind “consent” is having control over your body. That’s why (from what I understand) rape is so terrible- the fact that something so private and… just YOURS has been taken/used and you had no control over it. Even if someone DID sign a contract, that’s not really agreeing to sex so much as relinquishing control. It’s like if someone told you “I’ll cure your friend’s cancer right now if you take this roofie. By the way, everyone here except you and me is a sex offender. I can’t be held responsible for what they do to you.”
2) As to the “your problems are still there”: I took that to be sort of an overarching theme in the show. That you can never completely “take away” a person. Victor, even as a doll, has flashes of PTSD, and it’s kind of a thing in the show that he and Sierra love each other no matter what “person” they are. It’s even implied that pretty much ALL the dolls start developing personalities eventually, to the point where you have to regularly re-wipe them.

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